Let it Bleed & The Man Who Knew Too Much

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Let it Bleed & The Man Who Knew Too Much

Post  ExtraCookie on Sat May 21, 2011 9:07 am

Damn, never got around to reviewing the last ep. Maybe later. Condensed version of review is that Misha kicked total ass and I loved it.

All I have for these two eps. at the moment (and maybe ever) is an acidic, scathing rant. You've been warned. Also, it's very late (early!), I'm exhausted and emotional, so please forgive, well, all of it, but especially mistakes. I'll try to proofread it it later. Here we go.

There was so very much wrong with these finale episodes. Even putting aside (I mean it!) my Cas fan angst, there were flat-out mistakes. In random order, here we go:

1. Lisa and Ben. What the ever-lovin' holy hell?! He lived with these people he claims to love, yet he never bothered to get them both protection tats or at least charms or teach them how to demon-proof their home?! So, Crowley and his crew just stroll in and possess Lisa?! W. . .T. . . F?!! Also, how the hell does wiping their memories keep them safe?! I assume that was the point of it all. If it was only to keep them from having painful memories, I get it. But I didn't get the idea it was. Dean's enemies know they're dear to him; they don't give a rat's ass how they feel about him, so they're leverage as long as they live! RETARDED! Oh, and Dean didn't teach them both how to do an exorcism?! Ben should've chimed in and finished the exorcism when the demon had Dean incapacitated, before it grabbed a weapon! I kept waiting for him to! Dean dropped a HUGE ball with these people!

2. Demons, demons everywhere! Since when?! The demons used to find them or the guys would accidentally stumble upon them. Now they're just roaming around everywhere, apparently, easy pickin's for interrogation subjects! Huh?! Is there a demon-summoning ritual they've suddenly started using? Oh, and since when can Dean take on multiple demons (who were probably of a decently high level, since they were working for Crowley, the king of hell, who could presumably have his pick) at once without a scratch? The writers don't even try for believablity anymore. And don't tell me this is a show about unrealistic shit. I know. But it's the kind of unrealistic show that needs a decent framework of reality. They started out the show making a solid foundation of humans being like real-world humans (at least insofar as TV Land goes), now they've gradually made the Winchesters more than. I don't like it.

3. When, exactly, did Dean turn into a jerk? I'm baffled. Was it the point when Sammy decided to amp up his powers to save the world? He couldn't learn his lesson from everything and mature after that? Oh, I guess not. What about all that blanket forgiveness for family/loved ones he preached at Rufus's grave? Apparently, that was utter bullshit or, at least, it was exclusive of angels. People are so focused on Cas's pride and megalomania (that he's enduring as a side effect from being amped on souls--you know, like Sammy did when he was amped on demon blood?!) that they don't seem to notice that Dean LIVES on a high horse now. He is so much like so many accuse John of having been it isn't funny! "I'm the boss! I'm always right! No, I will not deign to grant you a few minutes to hear you out! I consider you family and I'm never wrong, so obey me or I'll hunt you!" Dean was always my favorite. Not in a "Dean Girl" way, but just in a "I'm more romanticially/physically attracted to him and can identify more with him" kind of a way. But this guy? This is someone I hardly recognize any more. Who knows what catastrophes could've been averted if he'd just sit the hell down, CALM the hell down and LISTEN to his loved ones! YES, this goes all the way back to Sammy. Sammy was wrong, yes, however, if Dean had done as he asked and heard him out completely, been calm and open-minded, he just may've been able to make Sammy SEE that in time to avert disaster! And now he pulls the same mistake under the same earth-threatened consequences! Idiot!

4. So, Sammy just walks in on the end of Cas's speech and decides to stab him?! Cas hadn't even done anything threatening yet! For that matter, when he did issue a threat (AFTER Sammy stabbed him!!), it was only IF they didn't bow! As long as they cooperated, he wouldn't. Hello, Sammy, strategy?! How about pretend to play along then strategize behind his back? Again, he didn't say "I'm going to kill you now no matter what," he said he would if they didn't bow. So fucking bow, say, "yes, sir!" then concoct a fucking plan! Your brother could've just murdered YOU, like YOU murdered all those innocent people so you could drink their blood, as soon as YOU went off the reservation but, no, he spared you and tried like hell to find a way to save your ass and the rest of the world from YOU! For all you know, Cas's sudden megalomania is a fucking temporary side effect but, no, you just opt for instant stabbing! If this doesn't get explained away by his eggs being scrambled from remembering hell, then I honestly don't think I can ever forgive him! Who is this person? I don't know these people anymore!

5. POOR CAS! Holy shit, that poor angel! I can't cover every awful thing this angel has endured, or this would turn into a novel! EVEN after having made that damned deal with Crowley, If either Winchester or Bobby had ever shown Cas more than just brief, passing concern (that happened a grand total of ONCE before Cas was in too deep, if I remember correctly), knowing our honest-to-a-fault Cas, he probably would've spilled his guts PDQ and maybe they still could've figured something out! They could've TRIED remaining calm, to not point fingers and just trying to work on a solution! But noooo, only one of them bothers to DECENTLY ("You'd call if you were in real trouble, right?" or however Dean said it. Real, Dean? You mean like, oh, I don't know, about to lose a war that's going to destroy Earth and fuck up heaven, perhaps?! The trouble he told you about MONTHS ago that you dismissed because YOUR smaller problems were all that mattered?!) try to let Cas know that he's there for him ONCE HE'S ACTUALLY SUSPECTING HIM OF DOING SOMETHING SHADY & DESPERATE! FUCK! All season, it was "Cas, get down here and fix our problems," "Cas, we don't give a flying fuck what's going on with you, even though you're holding the fate of the entire planet AND heaven (which cares for/controls the Earth) in your hands right now," Now it's, "Oh, shit Cas, you evil idiot, you're a retarded piece of shit for making a desperate deal. Ya know, one of those horrible sort of deals that innocent US would NEVER DREAM of making because we're SO pure and SO smart. Why didn't you ask us for help?!" Jesus, Dean, do you think, perhaps, that your CONSTANT "I don't give a fuck about you, servant!" attitude and Sammy and Bobby's "We just stand here and follow Dean's lead" attitude just MAY have had something to do with that?! HMM, you prick?!

Yep. Sorry, but that's where I am right now. I have serious doubts about sticking with the show. I'll try the first several eps. or however many it takes to figure out if they're going to redeem Cas (Bobby &, especially, the Winchesters, for that matter!) or not. If they're not, I'm done. And I won't be alone.

*SIIIGH* *OHHHM* The eps. weren't all bad, however. Misha fucking KILLED it with the acting, it was fantastic! Jared also kicked total ass. Those inner-self sequences showed acting nuances I didn't know he had! I'm so proud of him! Jensen and Jim did their usual great jobs. Mark and Sebastian did fine, as well.

I didn't see the Purgatory chick twist. Frankly, I kind of thought that was stupid, but it was OK. I was interested in the shows the whole time; I never got bored. Just pissed off. Very, very pissed off. And crushed. Serious doubts I'll keep watching the show. IF it was Misha's idea to stop being a regular and IF they redeem Cas's character, I'll give it a chance. Otherwise, I'm so sorry J3M, but the show can kiss my ass.




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Re: Let it Bleed & The Man Who Knew Too Much

Post  Calena on Sun May 22, 2011 5:29 pm

Like I said on twitter, you do have good points, though I do not, unsurprisingly, completly [is it "completEly" or "completly"?] agree with you.

1. Lisa and Ben: I agree with you. Swiping their memory did nothing to protect them AND it could also be seen as taking the choice away, maybe both would have cherished their memories of Dean? Also, while I can guess that Dean exactly did not want to train Ben to not take his childhood away, a devil's trap above the door, for example, just in case, wouldn't have hurt and it's all the more baffling since Lisa KNEW that monsters existed, so it's not like Dean didn't want to fill her in.

2. Well, I give them the benefit of the doubt about the quantity of demons. But even though Dean was exhausted and out of it, unwittingly destroying the devil's trap was a stupid mistake that I can't see Dean making.

3. Haven't I been saying that Dean is a righteous jerk all through S4 for not listening to Sam?

4. Yeah, not sure why Sam wanted to kill Cas, either.

5. Yes, the Winchesters didn't treat Cas as a friend or family member in S6.
I get the writers love their literary symmetry, so Cas is Sam and is high on power and stuff. I loved that storyline the first time around (and I still think Sam was right to do as he did, and I still think Cas could do good with his new powers, though the "I'm god, love me or I'm gonna kill ya" speech doesn't seem promising), but now it's a bit redundant.

A point of my own: I imagined that Sam breaking down the walls in his mind and remembering hell would kind of be a bigger deal than it actually was.

I wasn't overwhelmed with the finale, though I do think it's an interesting set-up for S7 and I'm nowhere near not wanting to watch S7. I can understand how Cookie feels the show completely ruined Cas, though.

About Misha not being a series regular: He wasn't around much being a regular, so I think they'll have him around sufficiently enough in S7. They know we love him! Or maybe he got megalomaniac himself, and demanded a huge pay raise?
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Re: Let it Bleed & The Man Who Knew Too Much

Post  ExtraCookie on Sun May 22, 2011 7:40 pm

As to ruining Ben's childhood, at least with training, he'd have a chance to survive childhood. (Like Sam and Dean did thanks to their training.) Dean's an idiot if he thought Lisa or Ben could be safe with him in their lives. That's the biggest reason their whole storyline doesn't work for me. The show just went to great, ridiculous pains to put up a huge, neon sign that says: THESE GUYS CANNNOT HAVE A SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP EVER. WE'RE AFRAID FANS WOULD STOP WATCHING IF THEY HAD ONE. ALSO, WE PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE $ ON ONE MORE CAST MEMBER, SO SEE? WE'RE MAKING IT RIDICULOUSLY CLEAR WITH THIS STUPID BEN AND LISA STORYLINE. I just think it was a waste of time. As people, I liked them just fine and it was lovely to see Dean get some romantic/fatherly happiness, but it was silly and unrealistic. I'm unlike most fans in that I'd be perfectly fine with these guys having relationships, as long as they were realistic and handled properly.

How was Sam right?! He freed Lucifer! I really don't understand you here. Sam was obviously wrong to my and every other fan's mind that I've known. I hated it that he was. Hated it. I hate Dean's self-righteous attitude so I wanted so badly for Sammy to be right, but he just wasn't. He did what he wanted and all it accomplished was the loss of innocent lives (really, that's a very hard thing for me to swallow. I realize that I normally just conveniently forget that my sweet, lovely Sammy has flat-out murdered people unless I have to remember because it's being brought up. I very much wish they hadn't gone there. I know he had good intentions behind it [just like Cas had good intentions behind getting those souls] but, Jesus. He. MURDERED. People. That's so super dark. They really need to never give Sam a "dark" storyline again, because you really can't top that without forever condemning the character) and setting Lucifer free! That was right how?

I love Dean and, until this season, always thought he was so lovely. Yes, when that Saint Dean attitude showed up, I hated that part of him, but I assumed he'd learned his lesson. I truly didn't imagine he'd overlook the huge mistake of not listening to his brother again. I also never imagined he'd be so fucking self-centered. Your dear friend tells you there is a war going on in heaven that holds the fate of the entire planet and heaven in the balance and that he's losing, yet you simply keep dismissing that and calling on him when you need help for lesser things? Oh, sure, these moments tended to have (although, in retrospect, not so much. Those heavenly weapons were a hell of a pointless red herring!) to do with the war, but that's not why Dean called on him. He called on him because of the lesser situations involved with the war stuff. I'm just blown away by all this. They haven't just ruined Cas, they've pretty much ruined the Winchesters and Bobby for me too. These aren't the kind of people I like. They were all three at fault here. You're quite wrong about me being Cas-blinded, helps. All 4 have done shit I don't approve of, but the thing is that the shit Cas did most likely wouldn't have happened if the other 3 hadn't done THEIR shit. Can you see that at all or are YOU Winchester blinded? Sad

Exactly. I didn't need the same story twice. It was hard enough watching Sammy go through that story line, but the differences are that 1. there was a 99.999% chance he'd be redeemed (he's one of the two main characters and they are heroes, so, naturally, I knew he'd most likely get redemption and he'd definitely stay on the show, that helped me endure it). Misha is not a main character (now) and may not even be around for more than 1 ep. so it's not a sure thing that Cas will be redeemed like it was for Sammy. 2) at least Sammy's addiction didn't cause him to demand loyalty on pain of death (Oh, Cas No ). All things considered, everything's pretty much the same. Sam caused deaths, Cas caused deaths. Sam hurt a loved one (beat the holy hell out of Dean & nearly choked him to death [Oh, Sammy! ]), Cas hurt a loved one (destroyed Sammy's wall--more on that later). Sam and Cas were both trying to save the world [Cas was also trying to save heaven]. They both didn't know of any other option. Dean didn't hear either of them out (where's the character growth there? Where are the lessons learned? You'd think that with the Cas situation, Dean's memory would be triggered and he'd think, "Hmm, what happened with Sammy when he was going through this and I didn't hear him out? Oh, that's right, he busted Lucifer free! Perhaps this time I should calm down, shut up and hear my loved one out. It couldn't hurt and may help!" But, noooo, heartbreakingly, they've shown that, yep, Dean really is just that self-righteous and jerky! What's more is he wasn't even all right this time like he was with Sammy. Cas DID vanquish Raph. Horrible side-effects have occurred, yes, but he did do what he set out to do). Sam was high on demon blood, Cas is high on souls. helps, you do understand this, right? Cas isn't just suddenly being a jerk for no reason, just like Sammy wasn't. From your twits, it really didn't seem like you understand that.

Maybe Sam stabbed Cas just because he broke down his wall. *SIGH* I can actually understand that. Didn't look like to me Sammy was healed, Calena. Remember, as he was staggering to find Dean, Bobby and Cas, he was having hell flashbacks. Although it is confusing, as Cas seemed to assume he was OK. I'm not really sure what's going on there. Sammy will probably have more shit to deal with next season. Again, though, it seemed Cas thought he was OK. He's so high on souls now, it's not surprising he doesn't know better; he's out of his damned mind. Anyway, I can understand Sammy being messed up and knowing Cas did it to him. It sucks and I think if he'd had time to pull himself together, he wouldn't have done it, but, yeah.

As to your twits, helps, I really don't know what to say. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not Cas blind, but, in my post, I felt the sins of the Winchesters and Bobby far outweighed what Cas did because they very likely CAUSED Cas to commit his, so it was foremost on my mind, so that's what I talked about. Remember how Dean was the last time Cas had seen him before he went to him for help? Dean was pissed off at him and the universe. Chastised him for going home to try to fix it. Also, apparently, he never once tried to contact Cas that whole year he was living with Ben and Lisa. He knew Cas was going home to chaos (and, remember, the fate of the world is directly tied to the fate of heaven, so this affects him, too) that he was going to be single-handedly trying to fix, and he, as far as we know, never even bothered to offer up a prayer of, "How are things going up there? If there's anything I can do to help, let me know." "Sorry for the shit I said last time we talked; I'm not mad anymore." What kind of friend is that? If I put it into human, real-life terms and ask you to imagine "Supernatural" doesn't exist, would it help? What if the last time you and I saw each other (heh, pretend we've ever hung out face-to-face), I was all pissed off at you because I did'nt like the way something that you helped me with turned out. I knew that what you'd done to help me cost you everything you'd ever had and that you'd done everything that I'd asked, gone above and beyond the call of duty to save me, my family and my home, yet, because the results weren't exactly as I felt I deserved (through no fault of your own), I took it out on you. You told me you were going to go home now to try to single-handedly salvage whatever may be left of your home and family (that, again, got all screwed to hell in part because of ME) and I basically called you a whipped little pussy for doing that. These are my last words to you. Sometime later, you get home & realize your home and family are being controlled by a tyrant who wants to try all over again to cause mass death and chaos you and I fought to prevent and you don't have the strength to stand up to him, so, in desperation, you come to my house to ask for help (even though I was a major, whiny jerk to you the last time we spoke). You see me from a distance, looking like I've managed to pull myself back together and enjoying some peace for a change and--even though I've not bothered to even so much as acknowledge your existence since we parted ways--you decide to let me be because you don't want to cause me any more suffering. Also, you actually know more about your situation than I do; far more, and you only have 24 hours or less to come up with a solution, anyway. What are the chances I could come up with an answer? With vastly less knowledge and so very little time? On top of that, a possible alternative drops right in your lap even as you're watching me, standing there, desperate & torn. Then, for an entire year plus, I never bother to contact you in any way to ask how you're doing, offer my help, or just talk. Finally, I contact you. You're happy! You haven't seen me in a long time, you thought I didn't give a crap, but I called! Oh, but wait, I only called you because I want your help. With a problem that's way minor compared to all the shit you're dealing with and that involves the fate of me, my home and all of my loved ones. On top of that, I don't want to hear about it. I basically say, "Yeah, whatever, I don't care, just help me with MY problem." On top of THAT, this scenario happens several more times. Do you think you'd feel encouraged to confide in me what you've done (which you did, more than any other reason, in order not to disturb me?!)? Especially knowing how self-righteous and judgmental I am? Again, what you're doing is a risky gamble, but you know FAR more about your situation than I do or ever could and it's obvious that if you told me, I wouldn't help you, let alone try to even understand or even so much as hear you out; you know I didn't for my sister who was in a similar spot once. The difference between my sister and you, though, is that you are far more informed about the risk you're taking than she was and you're much older and wiser than she is.

Whew, that was exhausting! Laughing

I'm definitely not Cas blinded. I'm not anyone-blinded. As I said, all have sinned. However, as I said, what Cas did could've most likely been prevented by having one human friend let him know that he gave a damn about him before it was too late. (Did you watch ep. 20?! I thought he showed his position and explained why he did what he did perfectly well.) Also, let's consider something else: as to the shitty things Cas did before he was full of purgatory souls, remember, he'd already absorbed at least 50,000 HELL souls. If purgatory souls caused him to act this shitty, don't you think hell souls had to have been influencing his actions?! They're probably even more potent and, surely, more evil than monster souls! It's a good job he had much fewer of them or we'd have gotten Lucifer Cas instead of God Cas. I'm not into blind loyalty, I never will be. Unconditional love and blind loyalty are for fools and suckers. Just as when anyone does well I'll praise, when anyone fucks up, I'll call 'em on it. I don't care how much I love them, and I expect to be praised when I've done well and called on my bullshit, too. Just as I understood why Sammy made his mistakes and forgave, I understand why Cas made his and forgive. Unfortunately, the key to the culmination of these mistakes can most likely be traced back to Dean in both cases. I love him (though I'm sick of his self-righteousness), I understand he's suffered much (and that's broken my heart many times), but that stubborn, self-righteous streak of his that causes him to simply make a snap judgment then shut completely down like a little two-year-old is far from an admirable trait and is highly likely to have been the cause of both of these horrible situations. Another thing to consider is that Cas is new to human-strength emotions and brand-new to leading a civil war, with his opponent so much more powerful than him to boot. It's completely unfair to judge him exactly as you would a human with more experience with such things. All things must be considered.

Realize that Cas's situation is a pretty exact parallel of Sammy's, only with the consideration that he's an angel and he lacks experience with human-strength emotions and leading all alone. (Which means that, yes, on a side-by-side comparison & without considering everything, at least some of his actions may seem worse than Sammy's.) You understood and forgave Sam, why not Cas? What's the difference here?

So, again, ALL of the main characters need redeeming, in my opinion. I really can't believe you want Cas DEAD. Ouch, my heart.

I don't watch the show JUST for Cas. If the same scenario were happening to either Winchester or, probably, even Bobby, I'd have the same reaction. I love them all.

P.S. Funny how I say "I don't know what to say," then proceed to write an essay. Embarassed
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