A Point About John

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A Point About John

Post  ExtraCookie on Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:06 pm

So, is this the place for general "Supernatural" ramble? If not, tell me where I should put it and I will.

I'm just place-holding for now to bring up a point about John so I don't forget it later. Maybe no one will want to read it, but I'll post it anyway.

In general, it's about how the show doesn't seem to understand its own character or, at least, how, if it does, (oops, that's a lot of commas!) it has failed to fluidly put across how he's meant to be seen.

I was thinking about how Dean (and Sam somewhat too, esp. in earlier seasons) has whined and whined about John being an "absent" father and many other characters calling him a "deadbeat dad" (that term's most offensive to me), etc. Well, remember Dean telling Sam how, when he thought he'd been completely kicked out of John's life and that he had nothing to do with him that John regularly traveled there to watch over him? Do you also remember that, when the Striga showed up at their motel room, John was magically there in the nick of time? How about in "Home," when he was there but they didn't know it? Has it ever ocurred to Dean or anyone else that the guy may not have been nearly as "absent" or "deadbeat" as he's seemed to them? Aren't these two incidences (or multiple incidences grouped into one + 2 more) enough to hint that the guy may well have done this many a time? That leaving the guys supposedly on their own but secretly checking on them was his M.O.? It makes perfect sense, with what they've shown us of him. It also fits within his focus on making sure the guys were strong, indepdendent and prepared. It certainly would be a good way to observe and see how they managed on their own while being close by to step in if they faltered.

God, how I wish we could get even one strong statement--if not a whole, delicious episode--where this is revealed! That he was watching over them so much more than anyone realized. I'd like to see Dean, especially, kicking himself because he damned well should've realized it after the Striga incident and knowing that he checked up on Sammy. I could see it as a thing where neither son realized it because each felt the other was his fave (as we know they did) and so, just because he showed up on time/checked up on one son they didn't realize it meant he was doing that for both of them all along. The show has already well set itself up for such a revelation, in my opinion. There's all the storyline mentioned above (and maybe more that I'm forgetting) and the fact that Dean sure has been tossing out the compliments for the guy lately. I need to rewatch this season and count them up. I know there're at least two. Yes, Dean, yes! Get over your petty hurt and see the truth!

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

Actually, that may be all I have to say on the subject. blush That and, in case you missed it the other 50 times I've said it, I'll be heartbroken if we NEVER get to see Jeff John again. He should have at least one really meaty (read: he's the main focus) episode, too. From everything I've gathered, his not showing up is on the show's end, not Jeff's. Judging from what I know of his work schedule, it does seem like there've been at least a few opportunities here and there. Maybe not, though. Whatever, I just wish they'd find a way.

OK, I'm done. If you read this, thanks. Smile


Last edited by ExtraCookie on Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: A Point About John

Post  Calena on Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:38 pm

Oh, I'd love to see Jeff as John again, too. However, it might not only be a time issue, he might also want way more money than this little TV show could ever pay him, to do an episode. Or do you think Jeff would do it for (nearly) free, out of the goodness of his heart?

About John secretly watching over them, it doesn't make much sense. If was there, he could have been visibly there. They would have benefited a lot more from that than from some weird strategy of John to make them strong - as the issues the boys have as grown-ups illustrates.
Checking on Sam now and then is different, because John always came back to the boys, and then knew they were fine, but with Sam gone for good, not even making a phone call, it seems natural that John wanted to check whether Sammy was still alive from time to time.

Having said that, I do not bash John for not being there. He did the best he could, a lot better than many others would have done (as Sam admitted in S2 Nightmare [I think], when he said about John "more drinking, less hunting and that could have been our childhood). There is also no doubt whatsoever that John loved his sons.

John being around for the Striga save was coincididence... Laughing

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Re: A Point About John

Post  ExtraCookie on Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:57 pm

Regarding Jeff's return, that's certainly possible. If it's the case, then it means Jeff is a very fake human being, because I've seen/read multiple interviews where he says he'd like to go back there. At least once he's said that the main reason for that is that he loves working with J2. I feel sure he'd love working with Misha, too! I'd love for John and Cas to meet, I think it could be highly interesting. I imagine John grilling our poor Cas, trying to learn all about angels, heaven, the apocalypse, everything that went down concerning that, Cas's role (judging him, of course--I think he may be displeased at first/with some things, then definitely come to grudgingly like the angel, esp. when he sees how much his sons do and hears the whole story and realizes how very helpful Cas ultimately was. Besides, who can't like Cas? Even demons like Cas! Laughing), God, etc. Poor Cas! I can just see his reactions. If he thought Dean was a tough human to deal with, wait 'til he meets John!

But I think John watching from afar makes great sense! Or, more accurately, that it would to him. Remember, his parental sites were off kilter. He was forgetting to be there for them in a direct, obvious and emotional way because he was far too focused on being the drill sergeant who made sure his boys were independent, strong and able. In this mindset, it makes perfect sense to test their ability to handle things on their own. I'm pretty sure there's some sort of real-life survivalist training that employs this exact method. They teach the students the survival techniques, then dump them in the wilderness somewhere and go far enough away that they can't be obviously relied upon for help, but they're perfectly aware of where they are and what their situation is and can jump in at any time if the students are failing. I'd be surprised if the military doesn't employ this technique. John was a Marine.

Admittedly, TV Land does have a problem with ridiculous coincidences, but given all the rest that we know about John, it makes much more sense to me that his arrival in time to save his kids from the Striga was not a coincidence. I mean, he was right there at the exact, perfect moment he needed to be. I do get the feeling, though, that he was only scoping out the front of the place and knew about Dean being gone. His reaction to what happened makes it seem like he only realized the Striga was there when he followed Dean inside, probably preparing to tear him a new one for leaving the room. Another theory here is that I over think things. What a Face

As to the last paragraph, exactly, of course. How I wish more fans understood this. Most never think about his situation within the confines of HIS reality, "Supernatural's" reality. They only look at the parental failures and not the source of them. I've analyzed the guy half do death, and I truly don't see how he could've done better, other than to realize his sons needed more emotional attention/connection and, even at that, I understand why he didn't and am confident he truly didn't intend any harm & had no idea he was causing it. Shit like this happens when one is overly focused on a single thing. A mistake, yes, but a well-intentioned one.

How the hell do I almost always ramble, even when I didn't mean to at all?! Sorry! Embarassed
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Wow!

Post  ExtraCookie on Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:16 am

This is an excellent essay (? is that what this is, college graduate and/or attendee?) from "In the Hunt" about John! One of the (apparently) rare people who get him. I disagree slightly on a point or two (I do think he was a great father. Quite great, all things considered) and I could easily explain a few of her points and add a few things, but, overall, this points out many things that the average "Supernatural" fan seems to totally forget, overlook or flat-out refuse to consider and paints quite an unflinchingly honest picture of the guy. I teared up a time or two.sad Of course, I'm PMSing. Laughing

Check it out: http://books.google.com/books?id=bhxdnszFWL4C&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=%22I+became+your+drill+sergeant%22&source=bl&ots=SfQka748IJ&sig=T4D9P76gtuOZRkyehDhoYtvr8-8&hl=en&ei=DyRGTabJCMWblgf1lLgF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22I%20became%20your%20drill%20sergeant%22&f=false love u Make sure to scroll to the beginning of it; you'll see the "We're Not Exactly the Bradys" title.)

Totally unfair for the show to end without John's story being more properly/thoroughly told and from his or at least a neutral perspective. With or without Jeff, this needs to happen. If it doesn't, then I damned well hope someone writes a good book (not graphic novel. So far, I guess that's all we have that tackles this subject. I wish horribly I could afford them. I'm not a graphic novel person, but if this is all of his story I can get, I want it! Oh! I wonder if they're available as torrents! I must find out!) about him!
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Re: A Point About John

Post  Calena on Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:33 pm

I own that book. What's more, I got it signed by J2 at the con. *brag* Laughing Laughing Laughing

Yep, there are many interesting essays in it. I generally love the smart pop books, I have tons of them, on House, Buffy Cool , Gilmore Girls, Star Trek, Star Wars,..... even Twilight!
Haven't had the time to read all of them, though.

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